Media Curmudgeon

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December 19, 2003

Friday, December 19, 2003. Why

Friday, December 19, 2003. Why They're Called Talk Shows.
A person I admire greatly sent me an e-mail that read: "love yr blog -- I have bookmarked it for future ref. I loved what you said about Angels in America -- also the interchange between Leonard Lopate (one of the smartest interviewers on radio) and Coffin. You should do a muse-thing about radio, maybe -- how it gets to us with this amazing intimacy...." The e-mail was not only gratifying, but also corrected my misspelling of Lopate's name (which I have corrected on the blog).

Well, hardly the one not to take a challenge, I did start thinking about Leonard Lopate's interview program on WNYC radio. First, information about the program from www.wnyc.org: "Host Leonard Lopate lets you in on the best conversations with writers, actors, ex-presidents, dancers, scientists, comedians, historians, grammarians, curators, filmmakers, and do-it-yourself experts. Airs weekdays at 12PM on 93.9 FM and AM 820 and Tuesdays through Saturdays at 1AM on AM 820."

I also want to give a plug to Brian Lehrer's program on WNYC. Here's that information from WNYC's Web site: "Real talk on the issues from New York to the world. Brian Lehrer hosts, with newsmakers and phone calls. Airs weekdays at 10AM on 93.9 FM and AM 820 and Tuesdays through Saturdays at 1AM on AM 820."

Lehrer's talk program is almost as good as Lopate's, but I think that's because of my particular interest in Lopate's topics and guests. Lehrer is very bright and asks good questions, but, again, I prefer Lopate's style and questions just a little bit more...which leads me to the point of this discussion.

Lehrer and Lopate's programs come under the general rubric of "radio talk shows." But this programming genre also includes Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Bob Grant, Matt Drudge, Sean Hannity, Mike and the Mad Dog, and Michael Kay (the last two are sports talk shows, but I won't bother to promote them or any of the others by mentioning where they can be heard.) The notion that the programs of all but Lehrer and Lopate are called talk shows, sounds like newspeak to me. You remember newspeak, from Orwell's 1984.

Newspeak, was the language created by the ruling party in 1984. It "is amazingly detailed and seems feasible. It is based on the English language, and its vocabulary grows smaller instead of larger every year. An appendix, included in the book, enumerates some of the terminology and syntax of the language, and explains how the language is designed to control the thoughts of those who utilize it." (Quoted from the 1984 book Web site.) Newspeak called things by their direct opposite, for example, the Security Police, would be a lawless gang of murderers. The origin of the term talk show was a program to which the audience could call in and talk, spout off on what was bothering them.

If that was the original intent of talk shows, then the current genre of programs of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Bob Grant, Matt Drudge, Sean Hannity, Mike and the Mad Dog, and Michael Kay are newspeak, the direct opposite where the audience listens to the hosts, who do all the talking. Some shows pretend to take calls--as few as possible and only those that are highly screened. The calls that get on the air are of three types: 1) Wildly sycophantic ("I Love your show...), 2) Fawningly agreeing with the host's view ("You're so right..."), and 3) stupidly disagreeing ("I don't agree..."). The callers that ge to talk the longest are the first two, those that disagree are rudely hung up on (after crude, usually screaming, interruptions) and then followed by a tirade about how stupid the caller was.

Of course, the hosts are all safe in a secure studio so they can't get slapped around for their rudeness, crudeness, and stupidness. I remember seeing some research years ago when I was in radio (a Vice President of CBS Radio Spot Sales, a sales representative division, in 1970). CBS owned several talk stations and Radio Spot Sales represented several more. The research indicated that one of the reasons that people listened to talk radio is so that they could make themselves feel good by saying, "That caller was so stupid. I'm much smarter than that." Imagine listening to dumb people on the radio so you can feel smarter.

This probably explains how the trend for stupid radio talk shows and, then, stupid television talk shows started and why they grew like wildfire. The concept spread to other television programming, even to prime time. I guess the thinking goes likes this, "Put on something really vapid, stupid, and disgusting and people will watch it and say, 'I'd never do (say) anything like that--those people are so stupid.'"

Rush Limbaugh has talked his way into become a multi-millionaire by having the most popular talk show in the history of radio. But Rush doesn't take calls from the audience, he just talks about what he wants to talk about. I suppose that is why it's called a talk show. He talks, and talks, and talks. He never listens to anyone, to logic, to the facts, or to the truth. He just talks. Perhaps the reason Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, and Grant are so popular is because they are conservative, and, based on the research I mentioned above, perhaps the audience is saying to themselves, "Wow, that guy is so stupid. I'd never saying anything so stupid, simplistic, and hateful myself." And they'd be right.

These programs are called talk shows because the hosts, not the audience or guests talk. If that is the case, then Lehrer and Lopate's programs should be called listening shows because the hosts are superb listeners. I'm sure you've heard the old saw about, "God gave us a message about how he wanted us to behave. He gave us one mouth and two ears." Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, Grant, and the others must of thought God said "deers" instead of "ears" when he was passing things out and said they didn't want any.

Lopate's got a great set of ears. He's a brilliant listener. How can you be a "brilliant listener?", you might ask. "By asking brilliant questions and then shutting up," is the answer. The keys to a great listening show are great questions. Asking great, smart, incisive questions is hard. It takes a lot of work. When I listen to Lopate, I'm continually astonished at the depth and brilliance of his questions. He has clearly done his homework. He has become an expert on and in the subjects (people and issues) his guests talk about. I think he might even be better than Terry Gross, who is also a brilliant interviewer on "Fresh Air" on NPR and WNYC: "Fresh Air features daily reports and reviews from critics and commentators on music, books, movies, and other cultural phenomena that invade the national psyche. Airs weekdays at 3PM on 93.9 FM and again at 7PM on AM 820."

THe best way to get smart and feel smart is by listening to smart people like Lehrer, Lopate, and Gross, not only to get smart about a lot of cool stuff and neat people, but also about how to listen and ask questions. Being a good listener and asking good questions is a vital skill in business, sales, journalism, and in life (practicing it on your spouse really pays dividends). I think the converse of this is that you can learn close to nothing from listening to the other kind of talk shows--you are smarter than those guys.

If I were crass, I would mention that there is an excellent chapter in Media Selling on listening. But I'm neither crass nor opportunistic. But I do urge to listen to the best conversations on the radio, that wonderful, warm, human, intimate, portable medium: Lehrer, Lopate, and Gross, and about that I'm not kidding.

Posted by Charles Warner at December 19, 2003 11:49 PM

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